Secret Service Agent Explains Psychological Tricks To Read Anyone & Spot A Liar

Guest
Evy Poumpouras
Read time
~6 min
Uploaded
4 Jul 2024
Duration
1:18:43
Views
911.6K
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KEYPOINTS

  • 01

    Start by getting someone's baseline

    Evy Poumpouras, a former Secret Service agent and polygraph examiner, says a few minutes of watching shows how a person normally moves, stands and makes eye contact when nothing is at stake. In an interrogation she gets it with easy questions like name, birthplace and address. Then she watches how the person changes when recalling a memory and when emotional. Departures from the baseline are what matter, not any single gesture.

  • 02

    Look for harmony between words, body and energy

    Within seconds of arriving, Evy noted that Mel came straight over with open arms instead of letting staff greet her, and that her warm words matched her body language. That match signals sincerity. When words, posture and the 'energy' a person gives off don't line up, she says to note it rather than dismiss it.

  • 03

    When someone seems off, don't make it about you

    Evy's rule is to observe first and not spiral into 'they don't like me.' Most of the time someone's coldness has nothing to do with you. Mel, who mentioned being exhausted from hosting her parents and a late-night call with her daughter, says the trap is letting someone else's mood knock you off yours. Asking simple questions like 'how was your morning?' often lets people explain themselves.

  • 04

    Never call people out on their body language

    Evy says the cues are for you to gather information, not to show off. Pointing out "you just looked away" makes people feel analyzed and talked down to, so she keeps what she sees to herself unless asked.

  • 05

    'Liars look away' is a myth

    Evy calls the eye-contact rule 'BS' and marketing. How a person makes eye contact reflects their whole history, such as shyness, being called stupid, being hit, ADHD or autism. She breaks eye contact herself to search her 'mental Rolodex.' She separates two things: when reading others, let them look wherever they want, but when you want to build trust, hold eye contact, because people are wired to read it as trust and respect.

  • 06

    Body orientation tells you a lot

    Squaring up with someone shoulder to shoulder signals interest. Leaning or angling toward the door is what investigators call the 'fleeing position', which many suspects took because they wanted out. Mel notes kids in trouble at the kitchen island do it too. Evy adds that you are the other half of the equation, so check what your own posture says.

  • 07

    Verbal red flags

    Evy shares cues her unit noticed while admitting there's no research behind them: 'divine props' like a Bible or rosary beads, and oaths like 'I swear to God' or 'on my grandmother's grave.' Her point is that the truth is usually simple and doesn't need selling. She also flags stalling ('Who, me? Homework?'), shifts in possessive language ('my car' versus 'the car'), and above all whether the person actually answered your question. A dodge, a subject change or an attack is information too.

  • 08

    Watch out for the over-eager charmer

    Evy recalls Canadian detective Jim Smith, who got a confession from serial offender Russell Williams, saying the person to watch is the very charming one working hard to win you over. She notes that this trait appears in some, though not all, people with narcissistic or antisocial personality disorders.

  • 09

    People show you the truth even when they won't tell you

    Evy doesn't need a confession. Behavior is the answer. Mel adds that a refusal to give a direct answer is itself an answer. In interrogations Evy collected small 'admissions' that formed a picture like a puzzle. With one fraud suspect she asked, 'You don't have to tell me if you did it. What are you worried about?'

  • 10

    Deal with problems while they're small, or create space

    With people you can't avoid, like teammates or family, address issues early before resentment builds, and remember that kindness is clarity, since others don't automatically know your expectations. If someone's name on your phone turns your stomach, minimize exposure: let calls go to voicemail and text instead of calling back. Cutting people off is something she saves for when it's really needed.

  • 11

    How you say it matters more than what you say

    Paralinguistics means your tone, pitch and pace. Evy learned it doing news segments after leaving the Secret Service. Her advice is to cut down to a few 'greatest hits' talking points, speak lower and slower, use pauses, and never rush, because hurrying signals your words aren't important. Fewer points also lighten your mental load so you can pay attention to how you sound.

  • 12

    Bravery comes from action and mission focus

    Evy says you don't need to feel brave, confident or motivated first. Waiting for those becomes the obstacle. Before a high-profile child-murder interrogation she told herself 'Evy, you don't matter' and focused entirely on the goal of getting information. She says losing and messing up made her braver than winning ever did.

EXAMPLES

  • 01

    From AIG cubicle to Secret Service

    A few weeks into an underwriting job at AIG, Evy saw a cop through the subway doors and thought 'I can do that.' She called NYPD recruiting that night, later applied to the FBI, DEA, CIA and Secret Service, and the Secret Service hired her first. Mel's takeaway: knowing what you don't want is often enough to start.

  • 02

    Watching presidents absorb criticism

    Starting under Clinton, Evy watched presidents stand next to TV screens of commentators calling them idiots without falling apart. From them she learned resilience, 'mental armor', losing with class, less is more, and delegating, because a president isn't expected to know everything.

  • 03

    The polygraph unit she didn't want

    The Secret Service had only about 30 examiners, who handled the hardest cases. Evy put in her name 15 minutes before the Friday deadline, was surprised to beat more senior and military candidates, and was sent to the Department of Defense polygraph institute at Fort Jackson. There she took graduate-level biology and psychology on tight timelines, plus lessons from pharmacists on how drugs affect people. She later earned a master's in forensic psychology.

  • 04

    The manager who didn't care

    Meeting a potential manager in LA with her husband, also a former interrogator, Evy could tell within seconds he was only there as a favor to her entertainment attorney. She ended the meeting quickly and didn't follow up, reasoning that if he wasn't excited now, he'd never work hard for her.

  • 05

    'This guy's dead because of you'

    In simulated attacks at the training compound nicknamed 'Tiny Town', instructors would point out a mistake and move on immediately. Evy contrasts that with how we beat ourselves up over forgetting the milk. Her husband's rule: nobody says 'I should have', because you made the best decision you could with the information you had.

OTHER RELEVANT

  • 01

    Hard conversations with someone struggling with addiction

    Mel and Evy suggest going in to assess, not to force a confession. Put your feelings aside, watch tone, dodges and past behavior, and remember lying can be a coping mechanism. You may hope to get them into help, but you're only half the equation and they may not be ready. Plan your next step either way.

  • 02

    Use baselines anywhere

    First dates, job interviews, meeting the in-laws, pitching a client, hiring a babysitter: slow down, observe, and let people be themselves so their behavior shows.

  • 03

    Make mistakes into lessons applied

    Getting fooled sometimes is inevitable. What matters is correcting course without beating yourself up, which Evy says only makes you more insecure.