172 - Esther Perel: Trauma, how narratives shape our worldview, and accepting uncomfortable emotions
- Guest
- Esther Perel
- Read time
- ~4 min
- Uploaded
- 16 Aug 2021
- Duration
- 2:22:35
- Views
- 450.4K
KEYPOINTS
- 01
Perel grew up among Holocaust survivors, asking what makes people want to live.
Her parents each came from families in which every sibling had seven to 10 children; each lost about 200 relatives. Her mother went through nine camps in five years and her father 14, including a stint in Siberia. In a community where most adults had numbers on their arms, Perel's first question at two was why she had no grandparents. In 'Mating in Captivity' she distinguished survivors who 'did not die' from those who 'came back to life' — who could trust and reconnect again.
- 02
Survivors credited luck, will and dignity.
Asked how they survived, her parents gave three answers: sheer luck (not being selected when a thousand were chosen each morning); wanting to live, in case someone was waiting; and living with dignity — her mother mended her socks and folded her clothes. Her father managed to feed about 60 young people with scraps and potato peels, which kept them able to work and therefore alive.
- 03
Collective trauma demands collective resilience.
Her parents' community held gatherings for survivors of specific towns and camps, planted trees, celebrated and told stories. They understood instinctively what's now called collective or psychosocial trauma: they didn't try to heal alone. In the early years they spoke little, because others couldn't bear to hear more than two sentences.
- 04
Resilience is not just an internal trait.
Responding to Susan David's line that 'the key to resilience is the radical acceptance of all emotion', Perel says there's truth in it, but it reflects an individualistic view. Another definition is the ability to face adversity, rebound and re-engage with life — drawing on community, the people who help you, luck and earlier experience. 'It's not what's inside of you; it's what's around you.'
- 05
Adaptive parenting in trauma can become maladaptive later.
Survivors sometimes couldn't get close to their children — if I don't get too close, losing you won't hurt as much. Behaviour that was adaptive in the camps became maladaptive in peacetime. Understanding that a parent's behaviour reflects what happened to them, not who you are, can transform the relationship.
- 06
Individualism changed what people bring to therapy.
Over about 50 years, feeling good about oneself became an organizing principle, rather than feeling good about how one acts toward others. Clinicians now hear 'I'm not happy' as a chief complaint. Children's books before the 1960s, she notes, weren't written around the child's needs; Dr Spock marked the transition.
- 07
Generational expectations of fathers have shifted.
A son who felt he could never please his father would, 100 years ago, likely have heard 'I did the best I could; my job wasn't to pump you up.' Attia's father worked 14 hours a day six days a week, and was incredulous at being asked to do more.
- 08
The stories we tell drive how we act.
If I believe 'he doesn't really care', I act on that story. Perel's work is reframing — not as an intellectual exercise but because a different narrative changes behaviour on both sides.
- 09
Will and readiness are shaped by context.
When someone says they're finally ready to change, Perel asks why now — an ultimatum, a spouse about to leave, a son who hasn't spoken to them in two years? Each motive affects how the other person can receive the change.
- 10
Relationships determine the quality of a longer life.
Attia says that five years earlier he'd never have considered it, but now believes emphatically that the quality of your relationships determines the quality of your life — what's the advantage of living longer otherwise? Numbing emotions, Perel notes, often comes from judging that you shouldn't feel them.
EXAMPLES
- 01
Her mother's labour camp choice
At 18, hiding in the woods, her mother walked herself into a men's labour camp because waking up in the same place each morning was less dreadful than the uncertainty.
- 02
The Mother's Day post
Tired of Hallmark sentimentality, Perel wrote with humour about her critical, superstitious mother; thousands replied, 'This is my mother.' Her mother died at 80 when Perel was 42.
- 03
The nine-year-old who called the police
A man carried guilt for calling the police from a neighbour's house during domestic violence. Perel reframed it: he couldn't do more than a nine-year-old could, and it was one of the most loving things he could have done for his mother.
- 04
'You can't believe everything you feel'
Attia shares a psychologist friend's line: you can't believe everything you think, and you can't believe everything you feel. Mindfulness taught him the first half; the second was new.
- 05
Nine languages
Perel speaks nine languages and was schooled for 12 years in Antwerp; she came to the US to study, never intending to stay.
OTHER RELEVANT
- 01
Lean on community after trauma.
Healing often happens with others — rituals, shared stories and support networks. The conversation keeps the claim tied to named mechanisms, numbers, and caveats so a listener can act or ask better questions without flattening the nuance.
- 02
Question your story about others.
Ask whether your interpretation of a partner's or parent's behaviour is the only one.
- 03
Understand inherited patterns.
Genograms and family history can show how a parent's survival strategies shaped you.
- 04
Let yourself feel.
Numbing usually stems from judging emotions; acknowledging them is part of resilience.
- 05
Invest in relationships as a longevity strategy.
Treat them as seriously as exercise or nutrition. The conversation keeps the claim tied to named mechanisms, numbers, and caveats so a listener can act or ask better questions without flattening the nuance.
- 06
Ask "why now?" before announcing change.
When you tell someone you have finally done your own work, consider how your timing and motive will land; Perel suggests naming what you learned about yourself rather than presenting change as a bargaining chip.