168 - Hugh Jackman: Reflections on acting, identity, personal transformation, and being Wolverine

KEYPOINTS

• 01

  Hugh Jackman's career began with a gut decision, not a plan

  He did a journalism degree and only acted in amateur and community plays. Then, in his last semester, he noticed he was spending far more time on a play than on his thesis. He applied to drama school in Sydney because he couldn't afford England. He says roughly 5% of graduates from his three-year program, which took 18 students a year, end up making a living from acting.

• 02

  Being 'too thin-skinned' shaped how he handles reviews

  His father rarely gave advice before a decision. When Hugh said he would act, his father told him he had the talent but was too thin-skinned. Hugh took that seriously and doesn't read reviews. He asks someone for 'the temperature' instead. He argues that praise can be more dangerous than criticism on stage: a negative review can fire you up, while a compliment gets into your head and can wreck a performance.

• 03

  No public figure can please everyone

  Attia points out that a politician with a 60% approval rating is considered exceptional, which still means 40% of people can't stand them. He cites a Q-rating (a measure of popularity and likability) of 99 for Jackman in Australia, with the next person at 67. Both men treat a desire to please everyone as a trap.

• 04

  Attia: arguing with bad-faith critics online doesn't work

  Attia says he responds to an attack maybe once every six months and is 'oh for 20' at changing anyone's mind. Joe Rogan's advice was 'post and ghost': put it up and never read the comments. What bothers Attia is not being insulted but knowing that people with warped views about science may be harmed by them. He also admits scientists have often explained science poorly.

• 05

  Driven people often run on old fear, and the line between productive and destructive is hard to see

  Hugh's mother left the family when he was eight. He says he understood more than adults assumed, was never really angry with her, and felt she loved him. Still, he had lots of fears, which he would now call anxiety. Attia describes surgical residency at 110–120 hours a week, with exercise and practising anastomoses at night as his only other priorities. Both men ask how to raise children with drive but without the damage.

• 06

  Growth is natural, but they both went past what was healthy

  Hugh cites James Allen's 'As a Man Thinketh' (1904): growth is part of nature and uncomfortable, but they both went beyond that natural state, accepting unusual pain and sacrifice to achieve. Attia says his recovery contract includes journaling every day about the trade-off of putting 'eulogy over résumé'. That can mean accepting worse short-term performance and saying goodbye to some opportunities.

• 07

  Hugh's father taught him work ethic by example

  After Hugh's mother went back to England to care for her own mother, his father raised the children alone from the time Hugh was eight. Hugh says he can't remember his father having a moment to himself for a decade. He learned much of his ethic of hard work from watching him.

• 08

  Performing well every night comes from respect for each audience

  Hugh did 'The Greatest Showman' tour 92 times. Attia notes that most people in each audience see the show only once, so each night has to be the best version, as Muhammad Ali said about fights. Hugh says he remembers sitting in the audience himself, reading the programme and hearing the hubbub. He describes a near-spiritual connection with 2,000 or 20,000 strangers.

• 09

  'The Fountain' made him confront mortality

  Darren Aronofsky gave him the script 17 years before this conversation, after seeing him in 'The Boy from Oz'. Hugh read it that night and felt it was about the meaning of life. Attia, whose interest in longevity began about 10 years earlier, says his fear of not being here jumped when he became a father. He adds that living long without living well mentally is a kind of torture.

• 10

  Logan was a 17-year relationship with a character

  He played Wolverine in nine films and pushed for a final film that got to the core of the character. Fox's key people backed it, but there was concern about leaving perhaps $100 million on the table with an R rating. There was also resistance to calling it 'Logan' after building the Wolverine 'brand'. When it ended, Patrick Stewart was in tears as they realised it had been 17 years.

• 11

  He accepts ageing on screen

  Hugh says he mostly embraces ageing, while noting the industry is harsher on women. Attia raises the tension between getting better at your craft while being judged on looks.